50, Now What?!

Alicia: Hello everyone and welcome to 50. Now what? I'm your host, Alicia Sutton, and today's episode is one I'm so excited about. In this season, we have been talking so much about how to maximize your life in this next phase of life, but what can we learn frustrations the younger generation? In this episode I speak with Ajuah.

Alicia: We discuss how we as women, show it for each other through different generations and ask important questions like, how can women support each other in different stages of life? We explore the timeline and expectation around motherhood and ask, what can we learn frustrations each other? I'm so thankful for this conversation with Ajuah.

Alicia: Now, let's get into the episode. All right. Hello, Audra.

Adoja Michelle: Hello. Hello

Alicia: Michelle. It's so good to see you again and I'm so delighted to have you on this show. And I just have to say, you know, cause I'm always big on spilling out my heart and my spirit and you know, it became very important to me to, you know, as we're all trying to filter out the current noise and the climate that we have right now, that we take a step back and that we're making sure.

Alicia: That we're keeping safe spaces for the generations that are coming behind us or they're coming behind me and becoming behind, coming behind you as well, especially with our women, because it just seems so important to me that we are making sure that. We give them the room to continue to be the light that Victor Soul is intended to be.

Alicia: That's just how I, how I come at things. So even when I was developing this podcast, yes, it's, you know, 50 now what? Uh, cuz I'm a woman in my fifties, I always had women like you. I had you in mine. I had younger generations in mind and making sure that they were always front of mind. So even as we move forward in this, it may have some things to do with age, but it's still.

Alicia: In a way that it can be projected for you. So that's why it was so important for me to have you here. As we move forward and as we talk about intergenerational alliances, how do we as women, how can we show up for each other through different generations, even though we're different? What are your expectations frustrations someone who is older?

Alicia: What do you look to them to kind of be for you?

Adoja Michelle: Wisdom. Guidance, a roadmap to doing the things that I want to do. I think our frustration ~sometimes~ comes in where people are giving us a lot of advice, but they haven't done the things that we wanna do. And so that can feel very, not only confusing, but it could almost feel like control.

Adoja Michelle: Ah, I guess in a way it's. Dominates dominates. I'm older than you, therefore mm-hmm You should be listening to me because of X, Y, Z. ~Whereas it's mm-hmm. But then we don't want, like, we want the guidance, we want the wisdom,~ we want the roadmap frustrations the generation before us. We just wanna make sure that we're being led in the right direction.

Adoja Michelle: And so it's important for us. To network up and to, to network with people that have done the things that we want to do. So, for instance, I remember I had an, you know, I had an auntie who she, uh, was giving me a lot of relationship advice and she wasn't anywhere in the place that I wanted to get to. And so it can be kind of like, well, okay, you can maybe tell me what not to do, but maybe you can't tell me what to do.

Adoja Michelle: Gotcha. If that makes sense.

Alicia: And so, yeah, it's, that makes a lot of sense. And you know, it's funny that you mentioned that because, oh my God, I had the similar situation. It was the, I don't even wanna call it advice, I think it was just, I. It was this awful thing that this lady said to me, actually, she said it to my mom while I was standing in the room and, oh, I'll just give you a little bit.

Alicia: My mom was basically, oh, my daughter just, you know, she, I was in my 30, I was in my early thirties, and she was like, oh, my daughter just bought this, bought her first condo. She bought a condo now far frustrations you. And this lady goes, oh, nice. And then she turns to my mom and goes, you know, she ain't gonna never get no man like that.

Alicia: And I just remember feeling like a kicked wow. Like, I had made this huge accomplishment and somehow I was reduced to whether or not what this was gonna be, a reflection as to whether or not I had a relationship or not. Right. And I, and I think it was that moment that I was like, I will never. Do something like that to a young woman is base her value on what it is I think is important for me.

Alicia: And so I completely get that. Mm-hmm. And with all that said, what are the types of advice, for example, that you've gotten frustrations, frustrations an older woman that did resonate with you? What was it that that, was there anything that clicked? Was it anything that you said? Yeah, I can, I can work with

Adoja Michelle: that. I think the, the.

Adoja Michelle: The best advice I ever got was to do the things that I want to do now because you don't always have time. Mm. That's happened to me a few times. I remember one time being in a bathroom at like a casino or something. Me and my girlfriend, we were laughing. We had had a cup of mimosas. We were just enjoying life.

Adoja Michelle: And this older woman looked at us and she goes, enjoy it now, because it goes by very fast. He's right. And we looked at each other. We were like, wait, did that just make us sober? Or should we wait? Should we that kill the bus? Should we, yeah. Or should we get more of those sides? Which one? You know,

Alicia: you know, I absolutely love

Adoja Michelle: that.

Adoja Michelle: So, you know, I had a, I had another, um, friend of mine who was 51 and she said, Michelle, if you wanna have children, she goes, be very intentional. About doing, about doing that. She goes, because I waited too long and I, but I had all this time, and then I got to an age where I couldn't do it. And so, yeah. You know, the, the, the best advice that I'm getting frustrations women is go after what you want and do it now.

Adoja Michelle: Do it when you have the energy, when you have the drive, and when you don't have things that could potentially hold you back. Oh, I love that. Yeah. And so, yeah, I, I move with a, a little bit more sense of urgency because. I remember the, the day that I turned 30. Mm-hmm. And now I'm 36. And it was like yesterday.

Alicia: It was like yesterday. It goes by quickly. Yeah. Mm-hmm. It goes by quickly. Um, and where does that put you in terms of with that support and different stages in your life? Were there stages in your life where you kind of felt like I. This is the support I needed. Like there's different types of support that you need now at 36 that you didn't need when you were 30 or when you were 26, where you are now.

Alicia: Is it just a matter of trying to get it done, trying to get it done, or are there other types of support that you need? Or do you just need somebody to kind of be in the background and say, Hey, I'm here if you need me, or, you know what I mean? Because I knew, I remember when I was turning 36, I was kind of almost like I didn't want anybody to say a whole lot to me, and so now I'm always a little bit more.

Alicia: I'm always like, I'm careful with how I present advice and how I show up for someone depending on where they are in their

Adoja Michelle: age. No, I mean, I, I am naturally stubborn, so I had to get over that hump of feeling like I could figure it out without the guidance of older women, and now I'm realizing that what I need is more consistency.

Adoja Michelle: In that guidance, not just these one-offs that happen in a bathroom or happen, you know, in random conversation. It needs to be something that is more sustainable. So like literally, wow. 30 relationships with older women who were friends, but they're also mentors. Like I have a friend who's 72, but she's not just my friend.

Adoja Michelle: She's obviously my mentor because she's 72 and she's accomplished so, so, so, so much. And so now it's, it's, you know, recognizing that. You don't know it all. You can't know it all. You need support. You need guidance. You need advice. And so now for me, I just need it to be more. Quite consistent and finding those, the spaces to even meet these women.

Adoja Michelle: Like last night I went to a networking event and I didn't necessarily meet any mentors, but I met a lot of women who were looking for the same things, looking for representation, looking for community, looking for just that support group that it's difficult to find. I

Alicia: love that. And I, I think that women like me who are thinking, well, you know, maybe these young women kind of want their space.

Alicia: They, you know, they don't want, they don't want you in a, in a faith like that and need, maybe need to find a different approach, uh, to making sure that, uh, we're showing up in a way that's consistent and, and helpful in a way that, like you say, in a mentorship type of a role.

Adoja Michelle: Well, I think it's also finding the women who, who want that.

Adoja Michelle: I think maybe it's. It can feel, um, dominating when you're not even looking for it. Right? Like giving unsolicited advice where it's not even being asked. And, and, and especially too, not just for the women who want the advice, but finding out about that, about that young woman and what it is that she's even trying to accomplish, as opposed to

Alicia: just thinking that, you know,

Adoja Michelle: thinking, you know where she wants to go.

Adoja Michelle: Like that, that woman telling you that, that they're never gonna find a man. Wow. What are you a lesbian man?

Alicia: Right. She didn't ask that. No. I mean,

Adoja Michelle: you know, even something simple, like you don't even know what my sexual orientation is to just assume that like I'm trying to find a man, you know? Or, you know, what if I wanna be single or you know, just, you know.

Adoja Michelle: Right. What if my, my life goal isn't to find a man, you know? And so even just making sure that we, you know, I even do it with friends of mine that are in their twenties, making sure that we are not projecting Yes. What we want. Onto someone else without finding out a lot about them first.

Alicia: That is, I think that's kind of the key.

Alicia: And I, especially when we're talking about the differences between, um, you know, generations and those differences and, you know, coming frustrations Gen X, you know, we were always kind of thought, you just, you just work and people tell you what to do and you keep doing it, and then you kind of just, um, I mean, I was very fortunate.

Alicia: I had a, my mother's parenting style was a little bit more, a lot more liberal, a lot more, very different. I was very fortunate in that, but, At the same time, you know, you still kind of have this work to your drop type thing, and you don't have to have anything. It's all nine to five. And what I learned as more millennials came into my workspace, uh, was this workplace balance.

Alicia: And it is kind of this, you know, this may be my job, but this is not my life type thing. Oh, another question I wanna ask you is, how is the workforce now? What is the tempo there? Is it more of a, you know, I, I know we had a whole gig economy going for a long time. Are things going back to nine to five, which I hope they're not, but is it more flexibility in terms of how you show up and what is considered work with air quotes?

Alicia: Right.

Adoja Michelle: I don't think it's going backwards. I mean, I think that our generation is recognizing that the there are possibilities. I met a bunch of women last night who have. Multiple side gigs. Mm-hmm. And that is more important for them to maintain their autonomy and do what they wanna do and make money in a way that actually fulfills them and they're happy to do it, as opposed to going into a nine to five and being ruled and owned by somebody.

Adoja Michelle: I mean, in the last few months we've seen tens of thousands of layoffs. Yes. I'm reading posts on LinkedIn of like a man who just bought a house and had a baby and got laid off. Mm-hmm. Yeah. You know, so we're realizing that these companies. Don't care about you whatsoever. It can be gone tomorrow. You know, you can go frustrations making $150,000 to making zero overnight.

Adoja Michelle: Mm-hmm. That's true. Then the tricky part is finding a way to make money. In a way that makes you happy. And even just learning how to do that because the way their education system is set up, they're not birthing entrepreneurs. We are still being taught in our traditional education system to follow the rules.

Adoja Michelle: You do this, you go to school, you, you know, you go to college, you get a nine to five. And so it's diff really hard for those of us out here trying to be entrepreneurs because the generation before us, there aren't as many entrepreneurs. They, they followed this, this blueprint and so we're kind of figuring it out ourselves and yeah, we're figuring out ourselves.

Adoja Michelle: It's, um, even going to business school, I found out I didn't go to business school, but I have friends that were like, Michelle, even business school still didn't prepare me for entrepreneurship. They teach you business on how to make whatever company you work for more profitable. Mm. And so that's an area where I'm seeing people doing amazing things, but it's hard.

Adoja Michelle: When that's still not how society is being raised. We're not raising entrepreneurs, we're still raising people to be in this mold. Um, but we wanna break free and we are breaking free. And so

Alicia: that's definitely a struggle, right? Having the mentorship in that area. Is scarce, in other words, because it's very, very difficult.

Alicia: Mm-hmm. And, and I mean, I have to get some truth to that. I, I, I was a nine to five. Mm-hmm. Nine to five lady for a long time until very recently. Mm-hmm. There are a lot more of us who are finding our way out of that mold, but it's new to us. Uh, yeah. And it's very difficult to now say, Hey, this is what you should do.

Alicia: And it's like, yeah, you know what, I just started doing that too. You know, I just, you know, left a job that I've been working on for 22 years and now I'm doing a podcast. So, wow. You know what I mean? I'm learning that too. You know my, yes. My mentor is someone who's substantially younger than me, so I get it.

Alicia: I think we're all kind of in this mold together, which is why this conversation is so rich and so necessary, because we may all need to be kind of holding hands going, okay, let's, let's do it. I'll figure out what I can figure out. I'll let you know. You figure out what you can figure out. We'll meet in the middle.

Alicia: Break, you know, that kind of mm-hmm. Uh, more of, of a team kind of alliance, um, that I'm thinking too, and I can see that coming into fruition. Yep. That's why we need these conversations. Mm-hmm. And the same thing goes for, um, outside of work goes in terms of dating. Mm-hmm. Uh, I mean, How is that now? What, what is that like?

Alicia: Because I, I've kind of just stepped back. It's

Adoja Michelle: difficult because there's so many options. Like you could just get on an app and. You could be dating three girls at once in different cities. Yeah. And it, it's really, really difficult and I don't even know what I can say about that because I do not really date I had was in a relationship for four years.

Adoja Michelle: Yeah. And it sort of recently ended. Uh, yeah. We're still really good friends, but I know only being out, out in the, out in these streets, as the kids say, for out in these streets. Yeah. For only a few months. Yeah. Only a few months. I'm like, Oh, what it is. It is messy out here. It is

Alicia: a mess. And let me tell you what I come frustrations that too.

Alicia: I was sort of the. Serial monogamist and, you know, yeah. Uh, coming up, you know, I was in relation when I was in a relationship, I was the girl who, you know, if I, you know, I'm seeing someone, I have a boyfriend or whatever, I'm gonna probably be with them for a couple of years, and then mm-hmm. You know, then I may be single for a couple of years and then I'm back in relationship.

Alicia: So, um, I, I think too, And, and this may be true for you, for you as well, the generations behind is that there seems to be, especially with single women, is that, you know, somehow you are the sex in the city. It's, you know, this is what you're doing all day, every day, and that you're just out and about and out in these streets.

Alicia: But, you know, people who want to be in relationships or who want to be dating aren't necessarily hitting those types of stereotypes. And I'm, that's why I'm glad we're having this conversation because. It's looks very different for different people at different times. Yeah. But are there certain things that have changed in terms of what you're looking for?

Alicia: The, the, the goal for us was always find a husband or, you know, find your, your mate or, uh, you know, your, your significant other and that's it. Have your kids and that's it, and sit it out. Is that still the vibe or is it just kind of like,

Adoja Michelle: It's, it's, well, it's the vibe for the people I hang out with. I am typically around women in our mid thirties. We want a husband. We want a family. Most of my friends want that to be, to be honest. And what's weird sometimes is that sometimes I, I don't know if it's because of like the public conversation about feminism and equality or equity, but sometimes it could almost feel.

Adoja Michelle: We are to still want that because so many people are, yeah. So, so many people are veering away frustrations the traditional, like how to live your life traditionally, that when you say you want to still live traditionally, it's almost like, well, why would you wanna do that when you can be free? That traditional way of life to me doesn't mean not freedom.

Adoja Michelle: I want partnership. Right? And I'm also African, so I think there's, there's a cultural difference for me, whereas I'm still very okay with my husband. Leading as long as he allows me to live my life and he honors me, respects me, helps me achieve all my goals, right? I'm, to some degree, I am still a bit of a traditionalist, but at the same time, because of my timeline, cuz I want keys, you want babies here, I'm very, you wanna have some babies?

Adoja Michelle: I'm very, yeah. I'm very open to being flexible in what that looks like and being okay with the outcome. No matter what, like if I don't find a, if I don't find, you know, someone to marry me, it's okay if I end up having a child out of wedlock. I think that's, that. Maybe that's changed where, ah, there isn't as much stigma if you have a child out of wedlock.

Adoja Michelle: That's actually very true. Yeah. It's like, sis do, you know? Just, just go ahead and do it. I have a girlfriend who's 40 or 41 now, and she was like, I, I was where you were at your age. I went out. I found a man, I had a child. Mm. Whereas we're still getting a lot of advice frustrations the older generation saying, you know, you should find a husband first.

Adoja Michelle: I auntie literally get mad at me because I wasn't married yet. You know, like, wow, have a husband first. Like, you know, do do it in this sequence. But a lot, I think our people are realizing even if you do it in that sequence, it doesn't mean happiness. That the man could still, you know, it does not cheat on you or abuse you.

Adoja Michelle: And you could still end up alone. You could still end up a single mother. Regardless. And so that narrative is shifting where it's like, do whatever you wanna do. If you wanna go, you know, to a sperm bank and have your child go ahead and do that if you want. Like, so at least there is a bit more freedom in creating your own, like whatever that means to you.

Adoja Michelle: Okay. But there have been a couple times where I feel like it almost feels weird to still want. Something really traditional because so many people are veering away frustrations anything and everything traditional. Wow. I, I

Alicia: think that's the first time I've, I've heard that. Um, I know that there's been a lot of talk about and statistics about how, you know, so many women in the future, they are anticipating will be, Single and without children.

Alicia: Oh, wow. Some by choice. I'm not, yeah, there is, there's actually a very, um, basically it's sounding to be pretty valid in terms of the number mm-hmm. Of women, uh, in the very, like 20, 30 over half will be, uh, single and without children, the realities are there. I mean, I. At a point in my life where I basically had to let my mom know I got into my late thirties and, you know, and I, I somehow, I wanted to have almost some reconciliation, like, you know, I, this may not happen for me.

Alicia: I may not have a child. Um mm-hmm. And, and I was like, you know, and I wasn't, I didn't know what to expect. The answer would be, I thought the answer would be, you better go out and get pregnant right now. And out of nowhere it was like, Then they'll have 'em if you can't. Yeah. If you can't get one, then it's okay.

Alicia: Mm-hmm. And having that resolve, like, okay, so, so it's okay. And, and it was foreign to me to go, oh, it might be just be okay. And kind of gave me a sense of resolve and. I'm hopeful that regardless of the outcome, I, I think if it's something that you want and it's your intention, then do it because it's a lot of people who are mothers who probably shouldn't be correct, and then I find people who really wanna be a good mom end up being just really good moms.

Alicia: Yeah. You know what I mean? It's almost as if it's in your spirit, in your soul to do it, but whatever the outcome, It's gonna be okay because I sound that I've become a better, a better auntie, I guess. Yeah. I like, I, I like to think so. Maybe I'm just, yeah, maybe I'm, maybe I'm saying too much. Maybe I'm putting myself out there.

Alicia: I dunno. I don't know.

Adoja Michelle: No, it's, it's true. And I don't think it's, I don't think it's always by choice. Mm-hmm. I don't, I I think, again, I think some of the advice I got frustrations the older women to about the sense of urgency. I think a lot of us. Again, like six years went by for me very fast. That's so I think, yes.

Adoja Michelle: Yeah, so I think that there's a lot of factors. There are, like right now we're in a, we're in like basically an epidemic of women around my age having infertility issues. frustrations the environment, frustrations the things that we're putting on our skin. I mean, we have been, there's a book that I was reading for a long time and I had to put it down because it's making me paranoid about all the toxins in the environment that are impacting our fertility, and it's real.

Adoja Michelle: You know, there's higher rates of P C O S, endometriosis, all these things are Yeah, impacting our fertility. That didn't happen before my mother had. Four kids. Easy. Yeah. And she thinks it's weird that I've never even been pregnant at 36, you know? And I found out me and my sister both have endometriosis.

Adoja Michelle: Wow. And then of course, you know, our careers get in the way before we realize it. It's, you know, it's like, okay, well we're not financially ready to have a baby at 25. And so then you wait till 30 or 35 when you are to be ready. And now it's too. And now it's difficult because we have all these infertility issues.

Adoja Michelle: I don't, I, I, I don't think it is. I think it's a lot by choice. Yeah. I think a lot. I think it's May, maybe it could be 50 50, who knows. But I think for a lot of people, like I know women who, you know, took three, four years to get pregnant. Wow. You know, so, and wow. You know, for a lot of women it just, it's, it's not possible.

Adoja Michelle: So I think that it's, um, Partially by choice and partially by unfortunate circumstances, you don't realize what's gonna happen. You try to have a baby at 35 and you can't, but it's because society has made it in such a way that you can't afford to have a baby at 25. You can, you can't afford to take care of yourself at 25.

Adoja Michelle: You can because, because school loans are how many hundreds of dollars a month and where am I gonna live? And rent is $2,000 minimum. If you live in a city and it's. And then, you know, and it's finding men who also, you know, don't wanna have babies until they're financially ready. And so everything is getting pushed back.

Adoja Michelle: Yes. Not necessarily on our own accord, but because the way that the world is shaped right now, it's like we can barely even afford to take care of ourselves. We can't even think about having children. Well that's the thing

Alicia: though. And, and I. The fact that you got, that you're even, that your generation's even thinking about, look, if I can't afford to have a baby, I just won't have one until I'm in a place to do that.

Alicia: And generations prior, including mine, you just, you just ended up pregnant. And I mean, I can't tell you how many baby showers I went to frustrations the time I was 19 to 26. It was like, it was just baby shower mania. And then they started to taper off and you know, they're all having, you know, have grown children now.

Alicia: But no one was thinking that and they struggled. They struggled, you know, people were struggling. Yeah. And, and their whole thing had always been, you don't wanna be here struggling. And when I hear you trying to do it the right way, because that actually is kind of the way you wanna do it right now, you don't wanna be struggling.

Alicia: No, I realize. I think there's a lot of speculation about, and I, I, I, and I've been very. I've taken a lot of time to make sure that I don't do a lot of the generational bashing. You know what I mean? Mm-hmm. Yes. There are differences between this and a lot of 'em are, they're very funny, you know, like I, they can always be fodder for a joke and stuff like that.

Alicia: Right. But I think that it's important that, um, that we are creating a space to have these types of conversations and dynamics because it, it, the understanding about what is happening in and around, Our world. Mm-hmm. But with all that said, do you, do you feel like it's become more of a sacrifice? Is it, or, I mean, do you feel like, okay, you are still doing the right things, but.

Alicia: You know, I, I don't wanna say live in a time of regret because I don't think you should, because I think women always have a big timeline. Everything is based on your ovaries based, let's just face it. Mm-hmm. Our timeline is based on ovulation. How many times Yeah. Is the egg gonna drop? Yeah. And, and that puts everything in hyper speed.

Alicia: And, and, and like you said, 30 to 36, it did go by fast. I, I, I don't even remember, 30 to 36. I remember what that lady said to me. Unfortunately, I remember that moment and I was 31 years old. And then the rest. It's got a blur. Yeah. In between, literally. Um, but do you feel like you're sacrificing too much? I mean, to be, to put it bluntly, do you feel like you're sacrificing too much?

Alicia: There's always gonna

Adoja Michelle: be a sacrifice. My, my little brother actually had a tough time with me. He said to me, I. He thinks that the world often lies to women and saying that we could have it on me. Mm. And I fought him on that, but I think that there's a lot of truth to it. I don't think a lot of women, unfortunately, get to actually have it all.

Adoja Michelle: I agree. He was like, Michelle, you're trying to do all of these things. Yet you say you want a family and a child. He was like, you can't be doing both at the same time. You're either gonna be putting a lot of your effort into this, or you need to be putting your effort into finding an A, a man and cultivating a relationship and spending ti like how are you gonna do X, Y, and Z?

Adoja Michelle: And also raise a family. And I was just like, You know, I'm like, you know, he's, you know, and he wasn't even coming frustrations a man. He's, he's like, Michelle. He's like, you're my sister. And I'm always saying this too, because I care about you and I know how important it's for you to have a family, but the things that you're focusing on right now are not going to get you that in the timeline that you have left probably.

Adoja Michelle: Wow. Then it's like, okay, then you've been to yourself. Then I should have started a decade ago in one of the two areas, but a decade ago, 25, I was, I was a mess. Right.

Alicia: You're, you're a mess. You don't like, you're a mess at 25. Five. Everybody is a mess at 25 and they're not. You should be like,

Adoja Michelle: not, you can't be a mother, but I just have a, like, there are very few 25 year olds that I've met that are actually prepared to have a baby.

Adoja Michelle: Right? Even, even the ones that do have them who did have them at that age, I'm like, I don't think you should have. Because you ain't ready. It's still not ready. Right? Still ain't ready. Um, I sit all the time. I sit all the time. And so, but then at 25 it's like, well, what I want to do at 25 is not what I wanna do today.

Adoja Michelle: Right. I wasn't even a 25. I was Michelle at 25. Now I'm aju like even, like even my name has changed, you know? And so, you know, I'm like, if I would've had a baby, anyone that I would've had a baby with at 25,

Alicia: I would not be with today. Right. Well, for, for the record, I think he would've been an, an awesome mom at 25.

Alicia: I think sometimes it's, it's all a, a learning experience and a learning curve. Yeah. I mean, my, our parents had us very young. My mom had me. You know, in her early twenties, and my brother, you know, in her, in her early twenties and, and yeah, it was probably a mess. But a child that's being loved, then I don't, I don't remember the mess.

Alicia: Right? But at the same time, I think that's smart to put yourself in a position. What's happening with young women today, and what I'm getting is that they're, they're going about this in a very smart. Way they're going about what it means to be a woman, what your purpose is and, and what your dreams are.

Alicia: They're, they're putting that out there so that they're gonna be able to better nurture a child, and even if it's just the one, but that child's gonna be in. Where you are now will probably benefit, well, not just probably will benefit a lot more. Correct. frustrations you coming into who you are, frustrations going frustrations Michelle to Ajuah, they're gonna benefit so much more frustrations that.

Alicia: What you're gonna have to give frustrations that. So, you know, I don't know where, where, where to lead with that, but I, I do wanna say that it is a learning between the two. What you're learning frustrations someone who my age, who's not, you know, a few years older. Uh, I just turned 52 in March, so thank you. Uh, but, but I still feel like I'm learning.

Alicia: I'm still feel like I'm growing and I can tell you that I am learning frustrations, I'm taking the time to wanna have these conversations and learn, uh, on the in between. But what role has. And I can, I can, I know you're a very spiritual person. I can, it, it kind of just rolls off of you just frustrations hearing you talk, but, uh, where is spirituality for women today and how is that feeding into your life decisions in any st in any place where you are right now?

Alicia: Uh,

Adoja Michelle: well for me personally, it's. It's very present in my life, especially just having gone to Ghana and I was there for about eight, maybe 19 days or 20 days or so, and I met some very spiritual women and they kind of changed my life in a way. I have been searching, I've always been very spiritual. I was searching for it.

Adoja Michelle: I think the cool thing now is that there's like different types of churches popping up. I don't go to church, but there's like churches that are directed for young people. Yeah. And I think that, to be honest, in the past few years, There's been so much public acknowledgement of abuse that happens in churches that I think a lot of young people are.

Adoja Michelle: Mm-hmm. Searching for ways to have a relationship with God that doesn't require you to be inside of a church. Yeah. And necessarily have to go through another person to get to God. Yes. That to me is crazy. That to me, makes. No damn sense whatsoever. You are, you are just, you are just another regular man.

Adoja Michelle: Mm-hmm. And you are trying to convince me that I need to go through you, another regular person to have a relationship with God. Mm-hmm. And so I think a lot of us are realizing that, um, that's something that I'm very, that I love, that I'm, I meet spiritual people every day who. Would never and will never step inside of a church.

Adoja Michelle: Mm-hmm. And yet they are so much more spiritual, like spiritually aligned and live their life in alignment with their spiritual values than some people who go to church. Because the people who go to church think that just going to church is the way. Yes. That all of a sudden means that now you're a Christian.

Adoja Michelle: Yes. You know, and so that is a shit that I love to see. My parents are still very religious, but it's a shift that. Makes me feel finally, like I can't have a relationship with God. I remember, wow, you know, growing up in, you know, my, my, all, my aunties and uncle, not my uncles, but my aunties are, my parents are still very religious, and there was this guilt that you felt that if you didn't go to church, You were a bad Christian, as if God only spoke to you in those four walls in the church.

Adoja Michelle: Mm-hmm. You know, so that's something that I think is, is wonderful. And there's just, you know, and, and we're exploring now, now, you know, there's, you know, young people who are Buddhist, you know, and all different types of ways to be spiritual that, you know, years ago wasn't a trend. It

Alicia: wasn't, and it was considered weird.

Alicia: You were, you were, you were pretty much admonished. Yeah.

Adoja Michelle: I

Alicia: mean, you know, you would be a demonn. Yeah, they would call me a demonn.

Adoja Michelle: Yeah, you'd be a demonn or, you know, it's, you know. Mm-hmm. I know some churches do do things like, um, dispelling people, they go kick you out if you're not, you know, living up to their standards and to, and like, it's like what I mean, that's, isn't that.

Adoja Michelle: It feels like the opposite of Christianity and loving everybody and you know, it is, you know, also with just the acknowledgement of different sexual orientations and how you present in the world. Yes. You know, 20 years ago it'd be very hard for a transgender person or you know, a gay woman or gay man talk into a church and say, I wanna worship here.

Adoja Michelle: You, you couldn't, you couldn't enter. You didn't. Yeah. And so we're creating our own spaces where everyone is included and it's love and it's acceptance and I just wanna see more of that because the old way of doing things, not only was it restrictive, but people were being put in harm's way. Literally.

Adoja Michelle: Literally.

Alicia: That that's actually very true. I, I was brought up in a very. Like I said, at home, it was very different. I, I, I grew up, once I started not wanting to go to church so much mm-hmm. I didn't get abolished for that and was allowed to seek out a little bit more of my own spirituality. But like you said, when frustrations one place to the other, it's very different for me now.

Alicia: And I know that my sense of spirituality and my connection to God, It's very different frustrations what it was. I would've been if I had stayed in a very traditional four walled church. Yeah. Environment. And one of the things that I'm seeing, and that is consistent with what you're saying with the generations behind, it's like they're, everybody's already popping into what spirituality is in, in their whole being and.

Alicia: Even the Gen Zer, like the ones coming behind you. And I, I don't know how you feel about that, and I wanna talk to that too, about where you've seeing the generation and the women coming behind you who are much younger than you in their twenties or you know, 16, 15 years younger than you are, are they seemingly to kind of come in, almost popping in, like, this is the person I am and, uh, this is who I wanna be and this is what I feel God to be.

Alicia: Almost like very different types of beings. Um, Are you seeing that? And is that filtering into, is it kind of going in cohesively with where your generation is going in terms of spirituality and what that means? You know, it

Adoja Michelle: takes, with, with with each generation, they're becoming much more and more self-expressive.

Adoja Michelle: So we, we envy them sometimes. We're like, why can't we just do the thing? Why can't we just like be, you know, quite like them? Right, right. And I was just like, Maybe we're just getting old sis. We're like, I don't know.

Alicia: I absolutely love that because it resonates so much with, you know, like, like I said, every generation that moves forward kind of looks back and go, God, you guys are really free.

Alicia: You know what I mean? The, the, the generation before that, I'm sure my mom's generation look at these flower children, what are you doing? And then we came along and, you know, I was like, you guys listened to this rap. That was the big sin that we did. You know, all of a sudden you're, listen, you know, they're putting readings on your, on your, on your music, and then they hear you, you know, with the generations coming behind you and like, wow, they're really out there.

Alicia: But like I said, we're all supposed to be. We're all supposed to be different. We're all supposed to come into the world with a little bit something different to offer to the world and move into our own light and, and things such as that. Is there any other, like, last words, what, in terms of just your, um, overall feeling about where things are going in the world with your generation, my generation, and the generation behind you, what are your feelings and your senses about in terms of an optimistic perspective or are things kind of, are we skidding off a little bit?

Alicia: I mean, I know there's a lot of noise right now. Don't get me wrong. I know there's a lot of, lot of noise. A lot of crazy stuff happening right now. Yeah. But when all is said and done, what is ak I,

Adoja Michelle: yeah. I'm really optimistic because. People aren't giving up. Like, I don't think people are going to, you can see that the old system is still trying to hold on tight.

Adoja Michelle: They're still trying to make laws and do things in a way to, to keep us oppressed and to make things harder for us to be free. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. But people aren't letting up and we're sharing information. We're spreading information, we're getting together. Like I just started, started a retreat company, you know, maybe, you know, I was.

Adoja Michelle: Sidelined this way, but that's not gonna stop me frustrations still creating the community that I want to create. And so I see a resilience in my generation, especially the generation below me, that we are going to continue to progress no matter what is happening around us. Because I think a lot of people, I.

Adoja Michelle: Want to leave some sort of legacy. And the only way to do that is to be brave. If people want to make their mark in the world and they want to be somebody and they, you know, they wanna be, you know, and so I just, I don't see it letting up. Wow. I, I don't mm-hmm. I think it's only going to progress. Like, you know, again, particularly because I'm African, there's like this whole trend right now that's in, in the phrase is Africa to the world, and it is young people in Africa waking up and even people in the diaspora.

Adoja Michelle: Just mm-hmm. Shouting frustrations the rooftops, this is what we have to offer. This is what, this is what you'll find when you come to Africa. These are all the beautiful things, the inventions, the brilliance, the all the, the, the young geniuses that are coming outta the continent. Yeah. Even Africa is rising up despite hundreds and hundreds of years of colonial violence and control and, and yeah.

Adoja Michelle: And oppression. No matter, even though those things are happening, the young people of Africa are still rising up. They know they can be killed. They know that they can be jailed. Yeah. No matter what they're saying. Not today and not me. And if I have to go down for this, at least that's my legacy and it'll inspire somebody else.

Adoja Michelle: I mean, Africans now are, are still being inspired. By, um, African leaders decades ago. Yeah. You know, to recognize that if they didn't do this, we couldn't be where we are. And so there have to be pe, you know, people that are taking the torch and passing it on. So I don't see any of that letting up anytime soon.

Adoja Michelle: I love that. Yeah. And, and, and again, our best chances are to get the guidance frustrations the generation before us. We cannot do it alone. We're not doing it alone. Right. Again, you know, some of the people that we are, that are mentoring us aren't even alive, you know? But they're still mentoring us. Yes. You know?

Adoja Michelle: Mm-hmm. And so it's just really important, not just for your generation to be mentoring us, but for my generation to re to recognize that we need a. The generation before us, we need to know Yes. What were their roadblocks? Because history repeats itself. It does. So it's important that we recognize some of those systems of oppression to see how it could be playing out today, that we can figure out a way to move around them and, okay.

Adoja Michelle: Um, yeah. You know what I mean? It's, it's important that you still understand history, because if you don't know where you came frustrations, how do you know where you're going? All

Alicia: the time. Right. And, and that's an intentional trap. Yeah. I feel like that's an intentional trap for the gen, for your generation, for, for all the generations coming behind us, is to have that block to that history and that knowledge and that understanding.

Alicia: Correct. Um, and exactly. I can tell you, uh, I've, I've been making sure that I've create an intentional space. For that to not say it was pressing on me before. Mm-hmm. Um, like I said, uh, when we first started, but it's become why that pressed on me has come to fruition, uh, and how this conversation between you and I is so important and how I'll continue to have these conversations and to make sure that we're keeping this as a voice and a platform, uh, for you and, and the generations coming behind it.

Alicia: Mm-hmm. As this podcast goes forward, and that's why you're here. Mm-hmm. I don't think anything is by chance. Um, I don't think you coming into this space at this time with me right now is by chance, and that the words that you speak are. Important and need to be heard. And it has been a pleasure having all that with us.

Alicia: And I don't wanna cut you off if there's anything else that you wanna add and what you got going on, what do you have going on that you wanna put out there and how we can help people who need to find you for mentorship, maybe wanna reach out to you if that's something you wanna

Adoja Michelle: do. Yeah. So, um, you could just follow me on my personal Instagram.

Adoja Michelle: It's Michelle Sahe, it's my personal Instagram. And right now, um, I am creating, Like I said, I'm creating that community. It's essentially a network accelerator for, uh, people who want to live. Yeah. Who people wanna live rooted in community wellness and a sustainable luxury lifestyle. And it's about creating spaces for people who want to leave a legacy, but we need that support and we need the, that.

Adoja Michelle: That international network of, of people to, to do that. So, and all generations are welcome. I really want to create that community of people who want to lead by example, because progress only happens when people live and lead by example. Absolutely. Um, but it can be very difficult to do that if you don't have people around you who are living that same way.

Adoja Michelle: I think I read something recently, I was like, hang out with five. Smokers and you'll become the sixth. Hang out with five business, you know, women and you'll become the sixth. Mm-hmm. And so for those who are, you know, coming off the last few years of all of this cultural movement, it can be hard to find your place and it can be hard to find your community, um, if you're not artists, running by people who want to make a difference in not just their lives, but the people around them.

Adoja Michelle: So I'm specifically creating a network accelerator. We're gonna be in Marrakesh this August, August 20th. Oh. So micro calendars, we're going to Marrakesh and we're going to the only black owned and woman owned hotel in all of Morocco, which is crazy. Wow. In Africa. But she's the only black woman who owns a hotel in Marrakesh.

Adoja Michelle: Wow. Her name is Maryanne Lumar. She's one of the most, she's a another person who is a friend, but a mentor cuz she could be my mother. Yes, yes. And she is so invested in particularly young black women. Achieving their dreams and helping them get, get to that place. So she, when I told her that I wanted to create a community and I want, but I wanted to, you know, I wanted to travel and, you know, luxury lifestyle, she was like, why don't you do the retreat at my hotel?

Alicia: Oh, that is awesome.

Adoja Michelle: Right there. I love that. You know? And so anytime that I need advice, I just done, I text her, I call her, we collaborate and I love that. You know? And so I just wanna be able to create those spaces for other people. And I went there in January, she invited me to her hotel. It was absolutely incredible.

Adoja Michelle: Awesome. Change my life. Now I feel like I need to learn Arabic and French. Cause I feel they're gonna be a lot of time in Morocco. Yes. And I met people there who I'm going to. Have a relationship with for the rest of my life who are definitely going to help me in the areas that I want to go to. So if I can create that for other people, even if you meet one person on my retreat that changes your life, it'll be worth it for me.

Adoja Michelle: Okay,

Alicia: well I wanna go meet one person that's gonna change my life, so please come. Please come put on the calendar. Oh, I absolutely love that and I adore you. Oh, thank you so much. I am so grateful for you, so grateful to have you here in this space, and you are, uh, just gonna be a blessing to the, you are a blessing to the world.

Alicia: So I'm looking forward to what you're gonna do next. So thank you. Absolutely. Thank

Adoja Michelle: you. Yeah, we thank you. I mean, I don't know any other podcasts who are, who's specifically having these intergenerational conversations. Okay. Well, that's why

Alicia: I was, yeah. It came to me. It, it was, I was pressing, it was on my heart.

Alicia: It was on my spirit. Yeah. So I'm, I'm following through. I'm following through. Beautiful. And I'm looking forward to seeing where you follow through as well. Beautiful. You been great. Thank you so much.

Adoja Michelle: A enjoy. Thank you. Talk to soon.

Alicia: Thank you for listening to 50. Now what? Make sure to follow us. Great. And share the show.

Alicia: Make sure to follow me on Instagram for continuous updates at 50. Now what podcast? That's five zero. Now what podcast? This podcast was produced by Rainbow Creative with producer Matthew Jones and producer and editor, Sean Levy Feely. I love working with this team. To learn more about making a podcast for you or your business, visit them@rainbowcreative.com.